Last Updated in September 2021 by Lukasz Zelezny

In this blogpost

Hide this section

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSWy1AQufGE: Video automatically transcribed by Sonix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSWy1AQufGE: this watch video file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Welcome to the podcast hosted by Tom Campbell. Come on how to stay on top of your work.

Welcome back to stay on top of your work podcast. Where me and my guests talk about time management project, management marketing, so development, productivity, and many other fantastic things. This is skater, host we welcome back to the 29th episode. If you're looking for great tips want to deepen your knowledge or you know, one of those things or want to find out at what about what books successful people read stay here and don't go anywhere and today my guest is what

Sighs Nate. And he was already here with us, and if you want to know more about him and what we talked about was into the 17th episode, you will find a link in the description, will cash. Thank you so much for joining me here again. It's my pleasure, thank you very much for having me. Again, it's a pleasure for me and it's an honor. Thank you for everyone who is listening us right now and yes, I will do my best.

My best to to to make sure that this half an hour, 40 minutes. Well asked always deliver added value. Great, amazing. So we'll cuz just in a few sentences for those who don't know who you are, who are you? What do you do? Just, you know, a few words about yourself, okay? I am Lukas lesney living in London, for the last 11 years. I am

Pretty much dealing with SEO for all the time. Last six years, I dealing with SEO, I'm working for you switch. And then zpg, zoopla, you switch prime location as a director of organic acquisition managing team of nine people.

And then, decide of this, I am pretty active on all forms of meetups conferences, across the UK, and Europe, pretty much Europe, and UK. So I'm speaking on conferences, and I'm trying to make sure that first of all, I can share my knowledge, but also, I can stay on top of how a CEO should be in 2018. Okay, amazing. In a nutshell. That's great. It's

See what cause last time we met in war. So you were going to the SEO conference in katowice. So I wanted to ask you, what did you talk about there? Because you were one of the speakers but also did you find a new interesting latest Trend in a CEO or any other news? Yeah, it was really nice to meet you. That was the first time we could meet in were so. And yes, I was going to katowice and

And I was talking about actually I was talking about amps, so accelerated mobile pages and then I was talking also about WordPress how to make your WordPress work. A little better, a little faster, a little more SEO friendly WordPress as you know is operating with plugins. So very often one plug-in as if by Magic is solving lots of headache and they if you asking me

The conference itself and its amazing event. It's probably one of the best SEO conference, that is right now in Poland. So, full of full room of people, lots of friends, I know for many, many years, lots of interesting cases, because I think this is often wear polished speaker. Polish speakers are going. So yeah. It

It was a bit different. What I normally see with UK or with European conferences, but extremely interesting and extremely exciting, and our tour is doing fun phenomenal job. So so yeah if anyone who is listening us today willing to learn a CO. I think this conference Festival SEO should be in his/her calendar for next year.

Right? So the first question I want to ask you is, how does the work of an SEO expert? Look like is difficult, is it easy? Is it exciting? What are the challenges? You know, can you say a few words about that? Yeah. So you know it's sometimes a very chaotic because if you starting the working for a company you have so many on

Plus so much on your plate and you trying to prioritize. What is important? I think, like, everyone should start from old it. You first need to audit website to understand where the main issues and so on. And so on, currently we have plenty of tools on the market that are helping us to do this. So if you want to crawl your website, you can use deep crawl or screaming frog. If you want to secure,

Keywords, you can just go to the new search console, which is phenomenal, or you can start using software's, like, semrush or sis tricks. And, you know, there are like three main parts of the SEO. I would, I would mention you have on page SEO off page SEO and you have a technical SEO. So so you know, we if we will go if on-page SEO it and he has obviously,

You should start planning content, the whole content marketing campaign, identifying the areas where website could run and identifying the areas where website is ranking but not as good as as it could. And, you know, it's all about the scale. We not talking about few articles, it must be few articles at day and then over and over and over and over. And then after three, four weeks, when you started working on a project, you can say like, oh my

Gosh. Yeah, it's works. It delivered like it doubled traffic. So I would like to make this clear that SEO is pretty much like this kind of little factory mode. You always sometimes you doing boring stuff over and over and over and there is no results. But if you doing this consequently and the right way then the the results will come because because this is how it

And then you have a, then you have the whole technical SEO, some people loves doing technical SEO. So, you know fixing issues with crawling fixing issues with duplication fixing issues with some title. This is the title and meta description length. You know, plenty of this stuff and they rather trying to step back from content and on Page, in rather doing this technical stuff. And then

And then you have Co you have off page, which is link building and everything else. What is happening outside of your website and and some people loves doing that trying to trying to acquire links because they believe that this is working the best. I would say, you know, depends where your skills are you definitely finding something for yourself and and despite from the fact, it may sounds like you need to spend a lot.

Of time. The other side of the story is that it's extremely fascinating and very measurable because you have Google analytics that is telling you how the traffic is reacting or you have site Catalyst or you have any other tracker that you can easily measure your efforts. How they are paying back, okay? So when it comes to your work and time management because time comp is you know as you know time tracking

Software object in productivity in boosting productivity. So I have to ask you this question. How do you manage your time? Do you have any tools any practices, anything that helps you that? The very good question. I have this Pomodoro methodology so I'm trying to to to work very like a kind of a Sprint for a certain amount of time and then

Taking me five minutes breaks. And then again I'm working hard for certain amount of time, doing something else and then 5 minutes break and then again and again and again, obviously it sounds really easy to implement in theory but in the office environment you have lots of meetings, lots of people, and so on and so on. So it's sometimes

Times it's sometimes challenging, but yeah, I'm trying to work in the circles as so. So so I think, you know, obviously from environment is good to work because I like spending time with people but it's not always so straightforward because you from one side, you are with other people and it's all about this kind of interaction between people

From the other side, you really want to be efficient. So we need to find the middle point and I think this Pomodoro is is very good. Okay. So you said, you manage a team of nine people and I want to ask you, how do you do that? Do you have any strategies anything that helps you or not really well? You know, it's pretty straightforward. We know each other for years and also also not nine.

People is my direct reports, there is like for people who are my direct reports so they directly reporting to me. You know, the way how I'm wondering obviously we have meetings but I think they have a lots of autonomy. They are an expert. I really respect them and obviously there is no no room for kind of, you know, ego think from my side, you

I was saying, you know, making it's not an army, you know what I mean? It's an office environment. So so it's more about meeting is more about having a conversation rather than sitting on their head and checking what they don't today or tomorrow. And then at the end of the day, like I said before, there is plenty of metal that you can see how the part of the website. Everyone is responsible for is performing. So,

Cuz of that it's it's absolute. We are always spot on. And if anything is happening, we always can react. And rest of the team could help in that area. That is falling. There is no problem at the moment, everything is working as it should. So. So I would say that my, my management of the people day-to-day is is pretty much like a coordination of what

You're doing and just making sure that we going all the same direction. Sometimes it's a it looks like a little like a conch like a medical consultations if I can select that, you know. So there is an idea that is circulating. Someone is coming down in the same. You like okay I was thinking to do this. What do you think about this? And I'm thinking you know what? That sounds like a cool idea or sometimes I'm saying like I would rather refrain from that or sometimes.

I may say, you know what, let's do something. Let's dig deeper and let's see what what is online about this? Because it's a bit complicated problem and we don't know how things could react and and yeah, and, and I think this is, this is, like I said, we are like couple of doctors who, who is trying to deliver as much organic traffic as possible. We respect each other and that really

Oops, with a day-to-day tasks, that's great. So, the thing that comes to my mind is that, if you, when you manage a team, you also have to think about your customers, your clients or stakeholders, and it's also about the user experience. What can we do to improve it in to make our relations with customers better?

I've been in my case there will be a stakeholders. Yeah. So so other other part of the company's I'm working for I you know, first of all, you know, there should be clear objectives because that's always the problem when there is no clear objectives, then you may start and just simply waffling about things, just for sake of, you know, so what do you have this?

When you have this objectives then there should be a time frame set up and when you have a time frame set up, there should be clear reporting. So let's say if you reporting on organic traffic, you should always report on organic traffic and if Sheree's important and then report on the share. So you know the metric staying in line with with other part of the company.

I think also it's important to understand that it's not with SEO is not a bakery and you cannot deliver things Us by night shift, and then morning everything will be done. You need to have a reasonable time frame and resonable objectives because you want to stretch yourself but you don't want to put them so high that it will generally become a

If you strating an unachievable think. So I don't have like there is no like a one recipe, but I think this the Sphinx I mentioned this is where I would put my starting point. Uh-huh. So what I'm thinking about is also hiring the right people because you are an SEO expert. Yeah. So let's say, I want to hire an SEO guy to increase my project success.

You know, to make an audit. Whatever. What should I look for? And what, you know, questions, should I ask to such a person to make sure that he's the right guy? You mean like, you would like to hire someone to work on your website like a consultant or something? Okay, so I think there's a great question to fulfill first. First you need to I'd you need to really answer one question, who you want to hire? Are you going to hire a consultant that will have a lot of knowledge and a lot of experience? But it's

Hands on.

Only will be telling you what to do or you want to hire a freelancer a CO freelancer, who may not have less knowledge and less experienced, but will be much more Hands-On. So it will be physically doing that job, like fixing your website, crawl problems and optimizing title tags, and so on, and so on, so, because if, if you want figure out this first step, you may end up in the situation that you

Expecting someone to deal with this website. Physically like have make it his hands dirty because of that and it will not happen because he's a consultant. So first that that's that first. And then the second, you know, I think you can ask for a previous projects that this person between responsible for unfortunately you need to file. You need to find a way of verifying this because otherwise,

Eyes. And if anyone can say I was working on this, I was working on that and so on. So so when you have, when you have a little of confirmation, you may, you may also also want to ask a couple of questions, which are about recent set up around Co. So I would recommend you to read a little own search engine land or search in Juneau, or search engine watch. And, you know,

Pick up like three, four things and ask, for example, what is the person's opinion about accelerated mobile Pages or mobile first index upcoming algorithm update? And if the person will be spot-on, you know, if the person is confidently answering and you know, that this is a person who is reading a lot trying to stay on top of what's going on with a CO rather than the person who thinks that he knows how to do.

Do a job but there will be very little, very little impact. I would also try to stay away from potentially from agencies. If in your case, I think working with a consultant or freelancer will be much more than beneficial but also try to stay from some kind of like 12 months contract and so on and so on, finally the price, if the price is too low, that should also

Start electing you. If you give someone will tell you that, okay, pay me 400 polish zlotys or a hundred pounds. A mum. For next, 12 months on retainer, you can be pretty sure that nothing will happen there. Unfortunately, SEO is time-consuming and it's expensive. And if the guy is dealing with 15 or 16 20 clients by himself or 30, I would be very

It kind of careful because that means that he has very little time per client, but if there is like, price is higher and the person is dealing with less clients. You can be much more sure. And then finally, you know, there are referrals and opinions. So so, you know, it's a relatively small world. So, you know, you can, you can easily ask go to Facebook and see. Come on, come on with me.

Mutual friends and ask about the opinion or go on any group and maybe try to pick up someone who may know the person you want to work with and ask about how this person is delivering because that way you know you will have not only confirmation about skills of that people out that person but also about the delivery which is the most important. Okay. The conclusion is that you always

To be quite careful. And and you know there is plenty of people in the area that may say that they are and SEO experts but they are doing some wishy-washy black hat sometimes stuff which will which will bring you your website into trouble sooner or later and rather you want to work with a professional people and and you know professional people are plenty of there. Be

Because let's make this clear SEO is worth effort. This year is working. Okay. It's good to know that, absolutely. Yeah. So, what I'm thinking about now is, how to create a good strong marketing plan, because you're an SEO expert, anything, it's a part of marketing. And yeah, do you have any ideas? Yeah, absolutely. So again, there is no one way to

Go. And I can only probably cover one of the many ways and there will be as many ways as businesses but I can I can I can share a couple of tips and and couple of tactics that definitely not tricks. I'm nurturing tricks tricks are in the circus. So first of all, I think you should use this kind of what people in UK saying, low-hanging fruits.

Approach. So, what is low-hanging fruits? There must be, plenty of keywords that are already ranking, so try to identify them and try to put them a little higher especially keywords that are ranking between position 5 and 10 or 10 to 20 on the second page. Try to push them a little higher so they will be ranking on the first page and already generating traffic. That would be my first first tactic, the second tactic Gap analysis.

Perform, a find the gaps between you and competitors. Try to identify areas that your competitors are ranking. Especially if you pick up to three competitors and they simultaneously ranking on some specific keywords in top 10 and your website is not, you have kind of a confirmation that this guy's intentionally ranking on some keywords that are, that should be considered by you because you're operating in the same area. Let me Give an example, if this is

He's like, let's say, let's stop, let's step into Holiday Market because this is the easiest always the most they easy to imagine. If you work for if you are working for a website, a big provider and you can see that your competitors are ranking together on holidays to Egypt or holidays to Turkey. And Europe side is not, then, definitely, you should answer. Why do we have deals to Turkey? Do we have deals to Egypt and

We do why we not ranking and what we can do to run. And then you need to start optimizing this Pages or if there is no Pages for this destination creating this Pages, or if there is no Pages created yet, maybe you should write an alert and go to your boss and say, like why are we not selling trips to Egypt and turkey when everyone else on the market is so that wasn't Gap analysis and then obviously, you know, there is plenty of other

Other things that you should remember in your, in your SEO marketing plan, making sure that the website loads as fast as possible, you have a parity between mobile and desktop website, obviously must be responsive and must run on SSL and then and then you can try to make sure that links that are pointing to 404 Pages. You read erecting through 301 and you trying to

Point them somewhere to existing locations on your website. And I would, I would pretty much stay here because

When you are alone that plenty of to deal with. And the next step is to start from the point 1 and over and over and over you doing this, in the circle you can do this in a weekly Circle. We're on the Monday. You doing Gap analysis, and snapshot, you trying to figure out where keywords are and then from Tuesday to Friday in the Pomodoro approach, you are optimizing. And then next Monday, you just measuring impact on

Traffic through analytics. And you starting again because you need to remember that the data you will get from the export will be very different because you already influence a lot of upside during the week. Okay? That sounds good. So let's go back to that part of you where you are kind of a project manager and you manage a team of people. So what I'm thinking about is implementing changes and strategies.

To your team and it doesn't matter what type of business do you have, what should we pay attention to when doing that? Well, I think that's sometimes challenging because companies, especially the big companies would like to work the way they normally work for years but I think nothing works better than proving something. If you have a methodology to prove, if you can bring some white papers, or charts or description or

Point on a competitor and then you can say like listen they are working a bit different than we are working. So you know, we probably should consider two to deal with things a different way. I don't remember if it was anything like that recently, I just changed but you know, I can I can refer to the platform or tools that we are using, that's pretty easy to justify, going without a trial version. And you saying

I'm like, listen here is a very good platform and I have no doubts that, you know, we will we will we will achieve much more when we will have this platform. So so that's why, you know, that's one of the way to convince someone who is a decision maker or someone. Who is approving this part races. In terms of people is always this kind of situation that you have not enough resources. So you need to rise your head in to rise the Bell.

And you need to say, like we need a more resources because there is too many things that we dealing with, or we need to sum to to hire someone with a little different skill set. So instead of hiring another SEO, executive or SEO manager, you would like to have a developer who have a little of SEO knowledge because then, you know, you will be able to execute more from the strategy set up deliver more and make sure that you know, some things that that does.

Not exist, on the website can be created by this developer. Let's say some some engaging tools that people can use you know for example I don't know like loans calculator or this kind of things that really people likes to play with and yeah I think everything starts from the conversation this is that's what this is important to have a good relation with all the stakeholders and know the decision.

Curves because if you don't have a good relation then, you know, we can, there is a risk that the robe is ego clash and rather than constructive discussion about next step. Either to to implement some changes in the platforms that we have. So change the set up the tool setup or if there is any changes with a number of people you were managing or there is any other changes, let's say, in the city area,

You, you saying, like, you know what, I think that the seat area should be splitted because we will be working more effective. And the, if you have a good relation with people who are approving, this then it's always easy. Okay? So, the question that comes to my mind is related to our perspective of a project manager, but you are a speaker. And, you know, you talk on events and conferences. So, how do you organize your work?

In order to deliver a good presentation. A good speech. Do you use any practices? Because I think that's quite interesting. I mean, so there is a couple of steps I'm always dealing with the first step is that when conference organizers are asking me to speak. We are trying to identify, there is a topic that he already or she already have any agenda and I need to amalgamate with existing

Agent or I can propose my own topic. The first scenario is more difficult because I need to create a bespoke custom presentation. The second I can probably and I'm doing this, it's not a secret, I can reuse some slides from the previous presentation so that saves a lot of time and I don't need to rehearse. So when I have the the presentation prepared then doing a little of rehearsal

I'm trying to make this kind of step-by-step how I will be, delivering this on the stage, but I was never trying to memorize what I will be saying are so couple of times people on the stage. So generally that concept came from watching George Carlin and his stand-up comedy. One of my favorite comedian and I could understand on some point that everything looks so kind of like a freestyle. But in fact, it's memorized when I compared to

Ins from a different different programs. Someone who's somewhere from 90s and I was thinking like, oh my God, he's so good. And he memorized everything, but you still thinking that he is just the freestyling, this is a stand-up comedy. So then I was thinking, like, maybe I should once implement this, in my presentation. And I think I saw two, three people who are memorizing, everything word by word for 30 minutes, talk, and that looks a bit awkward.

Fortunately, so it's not replicable. You know, I could I could hear a people around me or I was listening to this person on this stage and people around me was like what's going on here. This person memorized, everything that's kind of awkward. So you losing the interaction with the with the, with the audience and this is very important. I wanted to rise interaction with the audience is very important to me. So I'm always asking questions golding's, asking them to rise the

A hand, if something I'm trying to make sure that they know that I am for them. Not they are here and I'm here. But you know, I don't care about them. So you had how I'm preparing the topic how I'm preparing slides how I'm rehearsing obviously there is a little of operational stuff I need to make sure that I have tickets for a conference

So I have a hotel. I need to make sure that everything sits in my calendar because sometimes I'm back-to-back conference to conference. So I need to be pretty well organized. But I like I said some people may think that rehearsing this would take couple of weeks in advance. Now it's just sometimes, two times will going through the slides and then going on the stage and then finally you know depends who you talking to are you talking to

To see Mo CEOs CFOs. So you delivering different way and are you talking to people like you who are, who are really into a CO and so on? And so on depends on the type of event is the select very corporate event at the morning or it is an event as a meet up after work. You know, if this is early morning and you are the first one, don't try to be too intense.

Because, you know, this is this is the time when people want to listen, but also want to have a sip of coffee and the bite of crossin and you should respect that, you know what I mean? So, you know, I'm always saying like, you know, bringing this super intense speakers on the first slot is not the best idea. That's true. You know, you so that you saw that, you know how it looks like when someone is jumping on the scene at 9 o'clock sharp,

And starting from how you doing? Boom, boom. And I'm like, come on, give me a break. Yeah, that's truth. It's sometimes through early for people to feel. Yeah, into that. Yeah, that's true. So it's actually not as easy as it seems to be a speaker because you have to keep everything organized. That can be crazy, it is a bit, but you have a DropBox, you have Google Calendar, you have G. Sweet.

And I think that that's her tools that really helps. I also have a spreadsheet which contain all the dates, all the names of the conference's towns cities and the countries plus people who I should contact if I question. Yeah. So you gotta be going to be really organized to actually do it in the right way. I think. Yeah. Yeah. Organization is important in this. Yeah okay so I like to switch to

The more creative part of the podcast. And I usually ask guests about how to stay productive and have to stay on top of your work, but also about books. But we talked about books, the last time you were here, but maybe they have you read any interesting books over the time that we haven't talked here. Do you have any recommendations or nothing special? Well, I think I didn't mention Napoleon Hill, how to stop worrying and start living.

It's a similar story to Dale Carnegie. So some of people who are listening us, may say like a hoe yet another guy who is talking about this. And, you know, but I respect Napoleon Hill because of the fact that when he was delivering his books, there was a lot of difficulties and

Rose no copy paste and there was probably no ghostwriters maybe they were but maybe not that popular this concept and so I believe that whatever is in this book is because of his thoughts and I would I would say again like this is not like a book that will completely free pups out upside down your life and so all your problems and your life will be like pretty easy and you will serve

Stop worrying and start living. But this is the initial step that you can look on the problem from bit different area. So that that book I would recommend and what else I was watching or reading. I'm reading I'm watching and reading of plenty of things but but cannot remember anything at the moment to ask that good to that, I could easily recommend to other

Oil. Okay. Okay. Do you have any final tips for our audience regarding to anything we talked about? Okay, I'll let me go this way. I am working in online marketing for 15 years, predominantly a CO and for anyone who is Young right now studying and listening us or any older people who

Already are actively working, but are considering to Pivot their career. Let me say, one honest thing from deep down of my heart, there is really, really not many things as exciting as online marketing. You have plenty of activities. You can start dealing with, you have paid marketing, organic marketing, email marketing, affiliate marketing,

We can consider even like, you know, like even a conversion rate optimization as a form of marketing and so on, and so on. So so it's super fascinating, Johnny, and even if that sounds or looks very difficult for people who never been dealing with these things. Don't think this way. Go for a course, start reading online. Go for and udemy or Linda or Coursera.

Or distilled or any other course that the data that is available there. Online start to read about this set up your own website to do some tests and maybe you would like to join this amazing crazy boat, called online marketing, which is surfing for. I think 20 25 years so far since the internet beans become so popular because we have a nice party.

Party on this boat. And we think that we will like you to join us. This is what I can say. And, and yeah, and I have been, luckily able to convince lots of people in recent years, who are thinking, like, I don't know, where or what, I would, what I would do, what I would be and soon as Ohio, so long time ago, I haven't had an idea for myself and that's how my journey with SEO started.

Johnny, I still like to do other things. I just recently bought the piano and I'm playing sometimes, but you know, or I'm trying I'm considering to write a book these days, but obviously SEO is a big part of my life and it's a lifestyle and sometimes people are shocked at on when I'm saying this. But yeah, you need to try it, to join you to see people. You need to start meeting on the conferences and you will understand nice and you definitely should write a book. I would be the first one.

To read it. Oh, that's so kind. Thank you very much. Now, now I have additional motivation to make it happen because, you know, how it is. You always thinking thinking thinking, but like I have a dream, by the way, I need to write this book in a very nice, sweet. Polish little town, and I need to find which one it will be. I have couple of on my list, like, large eyes, or maybe sudden Oak will see.

We need to go there for like a half a year doing nothing, but writing this book and you know, like even small very small cut a small flat somewhere on the market square. You know? Yeah. I hope you can do this. I really hope for for the book you to come out very soon. Yeah. Peace. Keeping your screws for me I will definitely look as if we want to find you. Where should we go?

There is a website that I'm still planning to launch, but it's very easy to remember the address. So let me give this a CO dot London. And there is a bit of information about where to find me. L, whatever else to find me. I'm on LinkedIn and on Twitter and Facebook, or you can type the last name dot U k–. And you will see my main website. There is her Polish market, social media, dot PL that,

People can type also and find a little of the tales about me or send me e-mail that, that I'm receiving this emails, so that should be probably easy. Okay, that's great. Oh gosh, thank you so much for joining me here for the second time. I loved our conversation. Thank you once more thank you very much for having me. It was a pleasure and honor and yeah, it's always nice to hear you to see you and nice to share some tips. So thank you very much.

From deep down of my heart. This podcast was brought to you by Tank and you can listen to it on iTunes and SoundCloud subscribe to get more content and always stay on top of your work.

Sonix is the world’s most advanced automated transcription, translation, and subtitling platform. Fast, accurate, and affordable.

Automatically convert your watch files to text (txt file), Microsoft Word (docx file), and SubRip Subtitle (srt file) in minutes.

Sonix has many features that you’d love including collaboration tools, world-class support, enterprise-grade admin tools, upload many different filetypes, and easily transcribe your Zoom meetings. Try Sonix for free today.